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3.14.by forum • Distributed crypo-network discussion - Page 2
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Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:02 am
by BarsMonster
hashkiller wrote:One last thing a have to mention:
What if somebody adds a MD5 to the System, an does allready know the Plain?
Example:
He adds "b34d7bb23c87c0c8fdbc55a11640ae10" and knows the Plain allready "VeryVerySecurePass123456" because he generated the MD5 by himself. So he could earn thousands of Points he just "faked".
He cannot:
1. The hash he added is not necessary cracked on his PC
2. Each packet of work from server contain extra hashes with the real one b34... . The idea is that there are at least 2 keys should be found per block, so even if you know first one, you still have to search for the second one, or server will decide that you are cheater :-)

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:23 am
by juggalobeast
i dont suppose its gonna use gpu for the dist cracking is it?

would be awsome if it did, as my cpu is alredy taxed 24/7 with rainbow tables distgen

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:24 am
by the_drag0n
juggalobeast wrote:i dont suppose its gonna use gpu for the dist cracking is it?

would be awsome if it did, as my cpu is alredy taxed 24/7 with rainbow tables distgen
sure it will ;)
this is what will make this project so special!

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:00 am
by BarsMonster
Yes, it will :-)
We might have a command like option to limit CPU usage, for example leave 1 CPU core unloaded, or do not use CPU at all.

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:02 am
by the_drag0n
BarsMonster wrote:Yes, it will :-)
We might have a command like option to limit CPU usage, for example leave 1 CPU core unloaded, or do not use CPU at all.
that would be very usefull as barswf in the actual version makes my pc lag as hell ;)
you cant even surf anymore....

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:13 am
by juggalobeast
the_drag0n wrote:that would be very usefull as barswf in the actual version makes my pc lag as hell ;)
you cant even surf anymore....
in the current version if you set -gpu_time 50 then it is a whole lot better on the lag, its at least bareable dont have to wait 5mins for your mouse to move or a program to open :lol:

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:31 am
by Sc00bz
budden wrote:
BarsMonster wrote:Yes, it will :-)
We might have a command like option to limit CPU usage, for example leave 1 CPU core unloaded, or do not use CPU at all.
It would be useful to have an option to specify the GPUs to use in multiGPU config, cuz somebody who have for example 8600GT & 8800GTS could use only 8800GTS, so 8600GT will do usual 2D windows drawing and there would be no lag.
The ghetto hack to do that is add an ATI card or a GeForce 7 series or older.

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:46 am
by the_drag0n
i think such things are possible but we have to set prioritys and finishing a working distributed client should be on top of that list.
but i think bars will read this and if its "easy" to do he will surely implent it. if not you'll have to wait a while i guess...

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:47 am
by BarsMonster
ATI & nVidia cards cannot work together under windows due to windows limitations - it cannot have multiple display drivers :-)
We can have BarsWF to use full resources when screensaver is active.

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:00 pm
by kiando
Perhaps one could emulate one driver virtually through linux?

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:40 pm
by BarsMonster
Why you need to emulate drivers?

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:10 pm
by kiando
I don't need to. But I was thinking about how to use nvidea & ati cards at the same time.

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:26 am
by alphaitaliancasanova
Hi all; in future is possible to have ATI cards and NVIDIA cards on the same Motherboard. this will become possible trought Hydra ( is a real-time distributed processing engine) the only problem is the lucidlogix must implement a pci express card with on board the hydra chip so you can use ATI GPU togheter with NVIDIA GPU and having a heterogeneus multi GPU platform.
Look here for more info how it works http://lucidlogix.com/technology/distributed.html :joy:

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:31 am
by the_drag0n
alphaitaliancasanova wrote:Hi all; in future is possible to have ATI cards and NVIDIA cards on the same Motherboard. this will become possible trought Hydra ( is a real-time distributed processing engine) the only problem is the lucidlogix must implement a pci express card with on board the hydra chip so you can use ATI GPU togheter with NVIDIA GPU and having a heterogeneus multi GPU platform.
Look here for more info how it works http://lucidlogix.com/technology/distributed.html :joy:
kewl thing but as it has to be an onboard chip you'd have to buy certain mainboards if it gets supported at all.
if it was a pci e x 1 card that would be realy cool.

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:56 am
by alphaitaliancasanova
I think this will work like the spurs engine derived from the cell processor of the ps3.
Toshiba have developed a pci express board with on board the cell broadband engine=PS3 CPU.
the message is clear the hydra heterogeneus multi gpu platform will work on each motherboard each chipset and each GPU.
So the only chance is to develop a pci express PCB=printed circuit board with on the Hydra chip. i think this hydra chip is a fpga=field programmable gate array. :o :shock:
lok above how it works http://www.lucidlogix.com/technology/distributed.html they say any chipset( this mean any motherboard). :joy:

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:59 am
by the_drag0n
question is just who needs this ?
who has multiple gpus from ati AND nvidia?
in general atm i would not buy ati. not because i dont like it (im using an amd cpu) but because of cuda.
i mean yes you could use an cuda emulator on an ati card but that sucks.
no matter if atis are cheaper or faster or what ever as long as there arent any good programs such in cuda i wouldnt buy one.

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:10 pm
by alphaitaliancasanova
I prefer ATI GPU because have more power on teraflops and are easy to programm it.
There is a C language compiler for the ATI cards. If you know C language you can develop a programm working on the ATI cards and using the GPU for calculation instead of CPU and the performance will be 27 time faster on GPU compared with CPU.
the SDK= software development kit is called CAL= compute abstraction layer you can found on this page http://ati.amd.com/technology/streamcom ... dwnld.html
I have programmed and tested ; but due to University have no time to spend for building a good programm wich run on ATI GPU.
You say who will use NVIDIA GPU and ATI GPU togheter ; NVIDIA GPU and ATI GPU have good and bad things so you can use the NVIDIA architecture to run the cryptographic alghoritm and ATI GPU to run round left operation and bit shift operation because ATI are more efficient where nvidia aren't and nvidia are more efficient where ATI aren't .
there are many reason to use NVIDIA and ATI together this depend on wich calculation you need to execute. :idea:

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:16 pm
by the_drag0n
intresting.
you might give bars a hand with the ati BarsWF coding if he needs it.

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:29 pm
by alphaitaliancasanova
the_drag0n wrote:intresting.
you might give bars a hand with the ati BarsWF coding if he needs it.
Das glaube ich nicht weil hab ich kein zeit und viele examen zu versuchen:mad: .Now i go to study:mad: heute abend komme ich wieder. Ciao

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:33 pm
by the_drag0n
alphaitaliancasanova wrote: Das glaube ich nicht weil hab ich kein zeit und viele examen zu versuchen:mad: .Now i go to study:mad: heute abend komme ich wieder. Ciao
ok ;)
you seem to have discovered my blog :P
but id prefer english in this board (as well as in any other) as simply much more people understand it.

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:42 pm
by BarsMonster
I don't think it is worth to have both ATI & CUDA to work together (like rotate on ATI rest on CUDA) - bandwidth would limit performance.
I guess coexistence is possible even now under Linux without that Hydra chip or something - just because Linux can have multiple display drivers AFAIK.
And hydra chip would hardly fix windows inability to load multiple display drivers.

Personally I would like to have both AMD & nVidia cards in my computer to make development easier, but GPGPU is still great :-)

I guess noone complains that we have no dual-socket MB which can have both Phenom & Core2Quad processors :-)

Anyway, I am still going to have AMD version as well as CUDA. My card should be somewhere over pacific ocean right now :-)
Rotate operation is nice, it means +23% of performance in the same conditions, so __probably__ 4850 would beat GTX280 (while price is twice lower).
Anyway, let's wait for practical results :-)

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:47 pm
by the_drag0n
BarsMonster wrote: I guess noone complains that we have no dual-socket MB which can have both Phenom & Core2Quad processors :-)
true id prefere a 4 cpu amd mainboard with 4 phenoms == 16 cores *hehe* ;)
btw bars hows the progress going ? any news ?

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:48 pm
by BarsMonster
the_drag0n wrote:you seem to have discovered my blog :P.
+Offtopic mode on
Ha, i've just discovered it too :-)
Now we are on the same side - I have bought recently a700 with 500/f8, 50/f1.4, 105/f2.8, 20/f1.8, 10-20/4-5.6 :crazy:
-Offtopic mode off

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:50 pm
by the_drag0n
BarsMonster wrote:
the_drag0n wrote:you seem to have discovered my blog :P.
+Offtopic mode on
Ha, i've just discovered it too :-)
Now we are on the same side - I have bought recently a700 with 500/f8, 50/f1.4, 105/f2.8, 20/f1.8, 10-20/4-5.6 :crazy:
-Offtopic mode off
offtopic on again :
sweet but a bit to expensive for me :P

edit btw can you speak german or do you use the google translator ?

Re: Distributed crypo-network discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:52 pm
by BarsMonster
the_drag0n wrote:btw bars hows the progress going ? any news ?
Well, one guy from this forum working on site, and client-server stuff.
I am waiting for AMD card right now - as soon as it arrves, I'll do AMD port, and see how better implement compilation server.
Looks like I would need to buy a VPS hosting for compilation server, or leave my computer always on and make it compilation server (I hope 256 kbit/s would be enough at the beginning for cubin's)

Well, learning German is one of my priorities. But now I am using google translator and dictionary :crazy: