How high can you get

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IvanG
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Re: How high can you get

Post by IvanG » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:50 pm

fotbollsplan wrote:ASUS P6T7 WS SuperComputer
7xPCI-Ex(2.0)x16

7 x GTX295?
4xGTX295 is a maximum. BIOS/drivers limits GPUs number to 8, also don't forget about cooling system which takes 2 slots (actually there is water cooling for GTX295 which 1 slot only but I never seen such systems even on inet photos).

Sc00bz
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Re: How high can you get

Post by Sc00bz » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:46 pm

Ohh crazy I just found out that Nvidia finally switched over to one PCB instead of having two PCBs facing each other. I heard awhile ago that they would do this "sometime." I was so going to say that you don't see water cooling for GTX295s because you can't do that yet. Well you can buy them pre-installed. Only problem is powering them.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814130505
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814143200

Anyway Radeon HD 5870s are way better than water cooled GeForce GTX 295s.

Code: Select all

                |              |           |            |             |              |            |           |   Adjusted
                | Instructions |           |            |  Max Slots  | Instructions |            |   Clock   | Instructions
GPU             |  /Sec/Slot   | Cost/Slot | Watts/Slot |    /Comp    |  /Sec/Comp   | Watts/Comp | Occupancy |  /Sec/Comp
----------------+--------------+-----------+------------+-------------+--------------+------------+-----------+--------------
Radeon HD 5870  |       680.00 |      $190 |       94 W | 8 (4 cards) |      5440.00 |      752 W |       78% |      4243.20
GeForce GTX 295 |       596.16 |      $710 |      289 W | 7           |      4173.12 |     2023 W |       95% |      3964.46
I got the clock occupancy from this one site that I keep forgetting (finally I found it http://www.golubev.com/about_cpu_and_gpu_2_en.htm). Since I don't know how to program for or have an ATI card I can't test if one can achieve a higher clock occupancy for ATI cards.

IvanG
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Re: How high can you get

Post by IvanG » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:03 am

Sc00bz wrote:Anyway Radeon HD 5870s are way better than water cooled GeForce GTX 295s.
It's theoretically(no GPGPU tests with 5870s were done yet) better than GTX 295 for hash cracking if you know how to program ATI hardware. I'd prefer to correct sentence in such way :). If you want professional system for developing with good compiler, debugger, wide range of other tools there no other options except CUDA.
Sc00bz wrote:I got the clock occupancy from this one site that I keep forgetting (finally I found it http://www.golubev.com/about_cpu_and_gpu_2_en.htm).
I've wrote that :D. Anyway it's not possible to use all seven slots, there was topic on nvidia site related to single slot GTX295,
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=101229.
nvidia guy wrote:Good luck getting a BIOS that works with that many GPUs... (also I don't know what the theoretical maximum for our driver is but I am pretty sure you will hit BIOS problems long before you hit driver problems)
It's way easier and much cheaper to build 2x machines with 3xGTX295.

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Re: How high can you get

Post by D3ad0ne » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:57 pm

It's way easier and much cheaper to build 2x machines with 3xGTX295.
Exactly, and thats what I've done. With two machines you don't have to worry about having enough case slots, an expensive motherboard, or a giant PSU for one machine (1250 watt seems to be running 3 GTXs fine). Plus I've actually had the problem of blowing fuses right after hitting the 'enter' key when running BarsWF. And good luck finding an UPS that will support this type of machine.

The main problem right now is that none of the good GPU bruteforcers are distributed. Elcomsoft is about the only one, but it only has a handful of GPU accelerated file formats. Once more GPU supported bruteforcers become distributed it won't be such a big deal to try and cram a bunch of cards into one machine.

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Re: How high can you get

Post by fotbollsplan » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:53 pm

Since most bruteforcers support where to start from in the keyspace (.. I think most do?), it's no big problem to create a distributed system yourself. If you can build clusters you can probably solve it without too much effort. Have some crappy program listen on a port and make it start the bruteforcer with appropriate parameters.
-
Too bad you can't have more than 8 GPU:s in a system. However, the PSU isn't really an issue. You can have more than one instead of a single 1600W nuclear plant. I do agree though that smaller nodes are probably more (cost)-effective. Basically you need a motherboard, CPU, RAM, 2-3 graphics cards, a PSU and a harddrive. Post some suggested (cost-effective) setups please :)

Sc00bz
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Re: How high can you get

Post by Sc00bz » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:31 pm

IvanG wrote:Btw, 2x4870x2 shows 4600M speed (not with BarsWF as it cannot support multiple ATI GPUs). Too bad it's impossible to have more than 4x ATI GPUs at system (driver issue). But upcoming 5870x2 should be 2.2x times faster than 4870x2, so 10 000M will be possible with single system.
Ohh hey benchmarks of 4870x2 which should give a good estimate of a 5870. GTX295s get about 1410M. So 10,000 / 1,410 = 7.09 GTX295s will be the same speed as 4 Radeon HD 5870s.
Now lets go with 6 GTX295s (2 computers with 3 GPUs each) vs 4 HD 5870s (1 computer with 4 GPUs).

Code: Select all

GPU             | Cost     | Watts     | Speed
----------------+----------+-----------+-----------------------------
Radeon HD 5870  | $1520+ x |  752+ x W | 10200 Mh/s (4500/1200*2720)
GeForce GTX 295 | $2790+2x | 1788+2x W |  8460 Mh/s (1410*6)
So which one is better?

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Re: How high can you get

Post by D3ad0ne » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:36 pm

Since most bruteforcers support where to start from in the keyspace
I agree with you, I actually thought about making a VB(only thing I know how to program in) program to do just that. This is were the problem comes in...

Lets say you want to search for a password that is a minimum of 4 characters, and a max of 4 characters and all lower case. so the range would be:
aaaa, aaab, aaac,.....zzzx, zzzy, zzzz. (Even though that is not the order that they would go in.)
If you have a server split up the work load so that client(a) starts at "aaaa", and client(b) starts at "mmmm". The problem comes in that there isn't support for 'end here' statment. Client(b) will try every combination from "mmmm" all the way up to "zzzz", and client(a) will try every combination from "aaaa" up to "zzzz", cause there's nothing to tell it to stop at "mmmn".

So far I am running (with CUDA support):
ASUS P6T, 6 gigs, 2xBFG 1xXVGA GTX 295, i7 950, BFG 1250w
XVGA 680i, 4 gig, 3xBFG GTX 295, Core 2 q6600, BFG 650w + XION 800w
ASrock 775twins, 1.5 gig, 2x9400GT (1-16x, 1-1x),P4 3.4, 550w
Gateway P-6831FX with 8800m

IvanG
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Re: How high can you get

Post by IvanG » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:42 pm

Sc00bz wrote:So which one is better?
Don't get me wrong :). If you want to do hash cracking only, ATI Radeons, no doubts, best choice. But if you don't wanna stuck with hash cracking only then you should consider nVidia's GPU's even if their peak performance lower than ATI's ones. That's my point.
There is nearly zero software for ATI gpus around and the reason of this is simpy because ATI don't care about GPGPU. Are you ready for this? Then you can invest into HD5800s. If you wanna more universal system -- no choice except nVidia.

fotbollsplan
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Re: How high can you get

Post by fotbollsplan » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:10 am

D3ad0ne wrote:
Since most bruteforcers support where to start from in the keyspace
I agree with you, I actually thought about making a VB(only thing I know how to program in) program to do just that. This is were the problem comes in...
I never thought of that :roll: I came up with a lame solution though. Add known hashes of the "breakpoints" in the keyspace to the list of unkown hashes. Whenever the cracker gets the known breakpoint it'll write it to some output file. Montitor the file and remotely terminate the process (somehow) when the breakpoint is found.

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Re: How high can you get

Post by D3ad0ne » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:26 am

Montitor the file and remotely terminate the process (somehow) when the breakpoint is found.
Haha nice! I suppose you could have the server check the output file periodically and when it see's the "breakpoint" hash it will execute a "pskill \\(client IP) ighashgpu.exe" to the client with local credentials. That just seems like a lot of custom work through.

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Re: How high can you get

Post by LordMike » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:25 am

D3ad0ne wrote:
Montitor the file and remotely terminate the process (somehow) when the breakpoint is found.
Haha nice! I suppose you could have the server check the output file periodically and when it see's the "breakpoint" hash it will execute a "pskill \\(client IP) ighashgpu.exe" to the client with local credentials. That just seems like a lot of custom work through.
PSKill is too ineffective. You never know if you'll need administrators password or such. Rather just have the client kill the exe with taskkill.

IvanG
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Re: How high can you get

Post by IvanG » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:10 am

Looks like the most cost-efficient system will be still the one based on good old HD4850's. Recently Tom's Hardware published 3 gamer configs, one of them with 4x4850 -- http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd ... ,2421.html. Gamers wasn't too happy to see 4xGPUs in system but for GPGPU it's just perfect. System costs < $1250 (and it can be reduced even more if you wanna do only hash cracking), all GPUs overclocked to 700Mhz, so it means about 4300M single md5 hashes/sec. Power consumption also good, only around 650W for full loaded system.

HD5870 theoretically can hit ~2650M for $400, HD5850 ~2000M for $260, OC 4850 ~1100M for $120.

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Re: How high can you get

Post by fotbollsplan » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:33 am

Most insane and cost-inefficient: GTX 295 MARS

Image

GTX 295 MARS 2x240 shaders at 1 476 MHz (It's actually 2 OC'ed x GTX285)
(Reference: GTX 295 shaders 2x240 at 1 242 MHz )

Temperature at full load: 105 &deg;C (at which it shuts down)
Power: Idle-system at 190W, Load at 646W (!)
Cost: $1600

ClaretandBlue
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Re: How high can you get

Post by ClaretandBlue » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:09 pm

Fastest Non-CUDA / SSE? :mrgreen:
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BarsMonster
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Re: How high can you get

Post by BarsMonster » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:22 pm

ClaretandBlue wrote:Fastest Non-CUDA / SSE? :mrgreen:
Looks impressive, I've seen 24-core screenshot somewhere last year. That was expensive :crazy:

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Re: How high can you get

Post by aliitpP » Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:15 pm

Q9550 @ 2.83 (haven't OC'd it yet)
ASUS 9800 GX2 *non OC'd - stock 600 MHz freq.* (256 cores in total)
Image


guys i have an idea of a small competition!
a judge creates an UNSALTED MD5 hash and whoever cracks it first win, will lol he is not gonna when anything but it's just a small game to play how about that??



thanks...

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Re: How high can you get

Post by K.9 » Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:12 pm

Imo that would be a waste of time and waste of energy.

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BarsMonster
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Re: How high can you get

Post by BarsMonster » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:45 pm

There are guys here offering such services for a $ :-)
I bet they'll play with you :-)

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Re: How high can you get

Post by D3ad0ne » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:20 am

I almost forgot to post this one in the 'how high can you get' section. x43d had the highest real one that I've seen, I can't seem to find his pictures so I can't remember his exact numbers but I think it was under 6 billion. Next step is to get some pci-e extensions, and see if I can populate all 7 pci-e 16x slots. Problem I'm seeing now is that it seems that the GPU's are very dependent on CPU speed, the numbers bounce around a lot in the GPU section when I had the CPU at stock clock's.

Specs: Core i7 950 o/c to 3.6Ghz, XP x64, 4 GTX 295's, P6T7 WS supercomputer MB
Image

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Re: How high can you get

Post by BarsMonster » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:37 am

D3ad0ne wrote:Problem I'm seeing now is that it seems that the GPU's are very dependent on CPU speed, the numbers bounce around a lot in the GPU section when I had the CPU at stock clock's.
You might want to try to get some guaranted CPU clocks for GPU part via --cpu_n 7

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Re: How high can you get

Post by LordMike » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:51 am

D3ad0ne wrote:I almost forgot to post this one in the 'how high can you get' section. x43d had the highest real one that I've seen, I can't seem to find his pictures so I can't remember his exact numbers but I think it was under 6 billion. Next step is to get some pci-e extensions, and see if I can populate all 7 pci-e 16x slots. Problem I'm seeing now is that it seems that the GPU's are very dependent on CPU speed, the numbers bounce around a lot in the GPU section when I had the CPU at stock clock's.

Specs: Core i7 950 o/c to 3.6Ghz, XP x64, 4 GTX 295's, P6T7 WS supercomputer MB
Image
I'm thinking too, that the solution to that may be to allow the GPU's to work more pr CPU intervention...
This way, CPU doesn't have to work overtime managing GPU's (Become a bottleneck).

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Re: How high can you get

Post by D3ad0ne » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:28 pm

You might want to try to get some guaranted CPU clocks for GPU part via --cpu_n 7
CPU doesn't have to work overtime managing GPU's (Become a bottleneck).
You guys are right, i have tried --cpu_n 7, I wil usually get about 43M/sec per core if I do that. But the +3 on each core doesn't make up for the -40 from the one core. While the number seem more stable I end up with a little lower total average. Also --cpu_n 6 will always cause it to freeze during load.

I already have cards waiting to go in the extra(blocked) pci-e slots. Once I get the extension cables in it will have more GPU's than CPU's so I wonder how bad it will be then. I may just have to do --cpu_n 4, the loss of CPUs, will be heavily out weighed by the extra power from the GPU.

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Re: How high can you get

Post by LordMike » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:51 pm

D3ad0ne wrote:
You might want to try to get some guaranted CPU clocks for GPU part via --cpu_n 7
CPU doesn't have to work overtime managing GPU's (Become a bottleneck).
You guys are right, i have tried --cpu_n 7, I wil usually get about 43M/sec per core if I do that. But the +3 on each core doesn't make up for the -40 from the one core. While the number seem more stable I end up with a little lower total average. Also --cpu_n 6 will always cause it to freeze during load.

I already have cards waiting to go in the extra(blocked) pci-e slots. Once I get the extension cables in it will have more GPU's than CPU's so I wonder how bad it will be then. I may just have to do --cpu_n 4, the loss of CPUs, will be heavily out weighed by the extra power from the GPU.
How much does the hardware cost in your town. Can't be much :P

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Re: How high can you get

Post by Sc00bz » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:43 pm

Isn't there a 8 GPU limit with CUDA.

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Re: How high can you get

Post by Crucifix » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:37 pm

Sc00bz wrote:Isn't there a 8 GPU limit with CUDA.
I dunno if CUDA has any specific GPU limitation.

I know for a fact Windows will not boot if there are more than 8 active GPUs.

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