road map.

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symbol
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road map.

Post by symbol » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:42 pm

Hi

when can we expect a new version of BarsWf with multi hash support (attack a large list of hashes) ?

thanks for your best cracker.

DarkPrince
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Re: road map.

Post by DarkPrince » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:19 pm

symbol wrote:Hi

when can we expect a new version of BarsWf with multi hash support (attack a large list of hashes) ?

thanks for your best cracker.
soon

symbol
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Re: road map.

Post by symbol » Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:46 pm

"Nov 30, 2008" -> today Jan 02 2009 = Soon ?

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Re: road map.

Post by BarsMonster » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:43 pm

Yeah, estimation is the same :-)

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Re: road map.

Post by symbol » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:56 am

Please, could you at least this week, release a pre-version with multi hashes support ? (many hashes cracked in the same in a wordlist)

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Re: road map.

Post by the_drag0n » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:03 pm

its done when its done when its done. use some other programm meanwhile.
lhc is quite fast and also free.

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Re: road map.

Post by BarsMonster » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:35 pm

As I was saying several times, stand-alone version with multi-hash support will never be released.
It would be supported only in distributed version. You can see why I am doing that.

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Re: road map.

Post by DarkPrince » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:49 pm

BarsMonster wrote:As I was saying several times, stand-alone version with multi-hash support will never be released.
It would be supported only in distributed version. You can see why I am doing that.
what if i whrite steroids in the chat window.

Will you work super fast like they do in Age Of Empire then? :)

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Re: road map.

Post by neinbrucke » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:12 pm

BarsMonster wrote:As I was saying several times, stand-alone version with multi-hash support will never be released.
It would be supported only in distributed version. You can see why I am doing that.
i was already afraid that was what you meant... i will probably never use a (public) distributed cracker for any hash i have, which is my problem, not yours, but... no chance you will release a standalone version with multi hash support and support for upcoming algorithms?

[message edited to make sure i offend no one :)]

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Re: road map.

Post by BarsMonster » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:37 pm

neinbrucke wrote:i was already afraid that was what you meant... i will never use a (public) distributed cracker for any hash i have... no chance you will release a standalone version with multi hash support and support for upcoming algorithms?
Well, It would be nice to discuss security concerns.
What specifically don't you like?

1) That someone will see that YOU have added a hash for cracking
2) That someone will see that someone have added a hash for cracking (i.e. will know the fact that security is compromised at the target system)
3) That extra-eyes will see recovered password in case of success
4) Insecure server software (leaking private data/activities)
5) Evil Michail, who have his own interest to get all password from all over the world and crack the earth

Specifically, for the salted hashes, we can make probability of 1,2,3 to be near 0 by making only your client(s) to work on your hashes.

You should see my point - I have an interest to provide my software for free to build a supercomputer (just to make it, personally I don't have any hashes to crack or something), but releasing completely free stand-alone bruteforcer have absolutely no benefit for me (except some public attention). Therefore, for sensitive applications, I can release a standalone private server application with unlimited clients for some $. But personally, I am not going to earn money on BarsWF itself.

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Re: road map.

Post by neinbrucke » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:42 pm

tnx for your answer.

my main concern is number 1 and 3 (and in several cases 4 and 5, although they strongly relate to 1 and 3). Whether it would be hashes from a legal penetration test or from some personal website, there is no way to make sure who has access to these hashes (and recovered passwords). Even though the hashes and passwords will often say next to nothing about the source of the hash... at least for the recovered passwords you don't know that in advance :P
you wouldn't want to find a password like Pass@FBI123 and have other people see that ;)

Do you think that if you release a stand alone brute forcer, your supercomputer will have less people joining in? I think it is not very likely that (except for a few) people will join and calculate along, while they have no intention of ever using it to crack hashes themselves. So in that case a standalone brute forcer will at least help to get publicity. (it could at least be 'some' reason to release a standalone version ;))
I personally do help in generating rainbow tables at freerainbowtables, while i don't use the distributed cracker, because when those tables are done i can use them offline.

I do see your point, and i love your work... it just sucks that i probably won't have fun with it :)

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Re: road map.

Post by BarsMonster » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:10 pm

neinbrucke wrote:I think it is not very likely that (except for a few) people will join and calculate along, while they have no intention of ever using it to crack hashes themselves.
Well, in this case Distributed .net project would not get users at all :-)
Very few distributed projects do ANYTHING useful to participants.

I see the issue with legal penetration test, and we will need to handle that (up to the point when your hash/recovered result never stored or passed-by the server, and only your clients handle that).

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Re: road map.

Post by neinbrucke » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:01 pm

hmm, true about distributed projects :)
so you'll probably be doing statistics and teaming as well? :P

i do think it will be very hard to find a good solution for hashes from legal penetration tests. i think for your supercomputer, it is better to not try and handle that aspect, as it probably complicates things a lot, while still not being trustworthy enough to actually use it for confidential hashes.

if you do want to handle it at a certain level however, an idea might be something with public/private key encryption, where both hashes and results will be encrypted to a public key that only the client possesses. in that way your central server can still function as a gateway and deliver work to clients. But this option will bring the same problems and challenges with private key generation and public key distribution as other PKI solutions (like with X509 certificates or PGP/GPG).

another idea might be to offer something like a 'sub' gateway that communicates with your central server about work, statistics and binaries, but distributes the actual work units containing hashes and results.
The distribution of binaries might be another problem in this case, if you have evil intentions or some evil person hacks your server, malicious binaries can be distributed. That's a lot like standalone binaries, but in a distributed environment, these binaries can change automatically. (and with standalone brute forcer it's possible to run it offline, without connection to the internet, so no possibility to leak data).

so now i'm actually back to "i think it is better to not try and handle that aspect in your supercomputer" :crazy:

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Re: road map.

Post by symbol » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:08 pm

I do not need "distributed version" or ultra-sophisticated version. I (and many others) looking for alone application with multi hash support! that's all.

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Re: road map.

Post by B0ff » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:22 pm

symbol wrote:I do not need "distributed version" or ultra-sophisticated version. I (and many others) looking for alone application with multi hash support! that's all.
As the_drag0n already mentioned LHC handles hash lists and is Cuda enabled, it's what I'm running at the moment (while waiting for BarsWF) and I get around 180m h/s on a single stock 9800GT, double that if I use both cards. It's not as fast as BarsWF but it's a damn site faster than the programs that are not using Cuda. ;)
http://www.elcomsoft.com/lhc.html

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Re: road map.

Post by Rolf » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:54 am

BarsMonster wrote:Evil Michail, who have his own interest to get all password from all over the world and crack the earth
Ain't that nice :wink:

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Re: road map.

Post by BarsMonster » Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:06 am

neinbrucke wrote:hmm, true about distributed projects :)
so you'll probably be doing statistics and teaming as well? :P

i do think it will be very hard to find a good solution for hashes from legal penetration tests. i think for your supercomputer, it is better to not try and handle that aspect, as it probably complicates things a lot, while still not being trustworthy enough to actually use it for confidential hashes.

if you do want to handle it at a certain level however, an idea might be something with public/private key encryption, where both hashes and results will be encrypted to a public key that only the client possesses. in that way your central server can still function as a gateway and deliver work to clients. But this option will bring the same problems and challenges with private key generation and public key distribution as other PKI solutions (like with X509 certificates or PGP/GPG).

another idea might be to offer something like a 'sub' gateway that communicates with your central server about work, statistics and binaries, but distributes the actual work units containing hashes and results.
The distribution of binaries might be another problem in this case, if you have evil intentions or some evil person hacks your server, malicious binaries can be distributed. That's a lot like standalone binaries, but in a distributed environment, these binaries can change automatically. (and with standalone brute forcer it's possible to run it offline, without connection to the internet, so no possibility to leak data).

so now i'm actually back to "i think it is better to not try and handle that aspect in your supercomputer" :crazy:
Yes, there will be statistics and teaming, as well as AMD vs nVidia vs Intel competitions :-D
Yes, I am thinking of having central server to work on statistics only in "secure" mode, with a dedicated hashes & result server under your control (who can be accessible from your subnet only, only for your clients, with IP filtering), so that hashes & results never leave your network.

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Re: road map.

Post by asl » Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:22 am

You can finish it in the year 2009? Im afraid :sad: You are talking about super computers secure networks with IP filtering :shock: This will take forever to finish it. :|

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Re: road map.

Post by symbol » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:52 pm

B0ff wrote:
symbol wrote:I do not need "distributed version" or ultra-sophisticated version. I (and many others) looking for alone application with multi hash support! that's all.
As the_drag0n already mentioned LHC handles hash lists and is Cuda enabled, it's what I'm running at the moment (while waiting for BarsWF) and I get around 180m h/s on a single stock 9800GT, double that if I use both cards. It's not as fast as BarsWF but it's a damn site faster than the programs that are not using Cuda. ;)
http://www.elcomsoft.com/lhc.html

I get only 33 millions/sec with LHC, with BarsWF it's 200 millions/ sec.

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Re: road map.

Post by Rolf » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:50 pm

symbol wrote: I get only 33 millions/sec with LHC, with BarsWF it's 200 millions/ sec.
LHC doesnt know that It can use CPU for hashcracking.

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Re: road map.

Post by BarsMonster » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:11 pm

Rolf wrote:
symbol wrote: I get only 33 millions/sec with LHC, with BarsWF it's 200 millions/ sec.
LHC doesnt know that It can use CPU for hashcracking.
Anyway, they could have at least 100-150 without CPU with proper hash checking algorithm...

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